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	<title>Comments for Dinner Table Taboos</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress.com weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:48:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Guest post:  Good News/Bad News by H. o'Dagg</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/guest-post-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>H. o'Dagg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=294#comment-67</guid>
		<description>And why should this be a surprise to anyone?  You&#039;re right, I&#039;m not an optimist on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And why should this be a surprise to anyone?  You&#8217;re right, I&#8217;m not an optimist on this.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ghosts by H. o'Dagg</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/ghosts/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>H. o'Dagg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-65</guid>
		<description>Tis the season...  };-)&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tis the season&#8230;  };-)&gt;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Carpenter&#8217;s Thesis by H. o'Dagg</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/carpenters-thesis/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>H. o'Dagg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=273#comment-63</guid>
		<description>Stories that you&#039;ve missed around Water Town?  Lets see, you mean like the &#039;Tanists with the farm S. E. of town and their &quot;doings and carrying ons&quot; (Maybe, not totally sure).  Or the &quot;Ghost Tribe of Horicon Marsh&quot; (Hay, it&#039;s a good story with a great punch line.)  Or how &quot;Ghost Hill Road&quot; near the little burg of Astico got it&#039;s name?  I&#039;ll get back to you on that, my battery&#039;s low.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stories that you&#8217;ve missed around Water Town?  Lets see, you mean like the &#8216;Tanists with the farm S. E. of town and their &#8220;doings and carrying ons&#8221; (Maybe, not totally sure).  Or the &#8220;Ghost Tribe of Horicon Marsh&#8221; (Hay, it&#8217;s a good story with a great punch line.)  Or how &#8220;Ghost Hill Road&#8221; near the little burg of Astico got it&#8217;s name?  I&#8217;ll get back to you on that, my battery&#8217;s low.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Creepy Cryptids by H. o'Dagg</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/creepy-cryptids/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>H. o'Dagg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=259#comment-62</guid>
		<description>Very well said. As someone who has spent a HELL of a lot of time over a good number of years in the wild I&#039;d like to say that it&#039;s truly surprising how easy it is for a large animal to hide.  I&#039;ve seen skilled hunters walk within six feet of a dear without seeing it only to have the dear stand up and walk away.  All while they were still within thirty feet or less of it&#039;s hiding place.  The only advantage people have in the woods is very limited color vision, the trouble is we gave up a great deal of other forms of visual acuity in exchange for it.  Add to that the shear amount of noise we make as we move about and any number of other things and it&#039;s no wonder most animals know where we are and avoid us.  For more on this I recommend the books by Tom &quot;Tracker&quot; Brown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well said. As someone who has spent a HELL of a lot of time over a good number of years in the wild I&#8217;d like to say that it&#8217;s truly surprising how easy it is for a large animal to hide.  I&#8217;ve seen skilled hunters walk within six feet of a dear without seeing it only to have the dear stand up and walk away.  All while they were still within thirty feet or less of it&#8217;s hiding place.  The only advantage people have in the woods is very limited color vision, the trouble is we gave up a great deal of other forms of visual acuity in exchange for it.  Add to that the shear amount of noise we make as we move about and any number of other things and it&#8217;s no wonder most animals know where we are and avoid us.  For more on this I recommend the books by Tom &#8220;Tracker&#8221; Brown.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Quantum of Lovecraft by wolfemann</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/quantum-of-lovecraft/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>wolfemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=255#comment-61</guid>
		<description>Well, thanks much for the link, and I&#039;ll cheerfully take a look at your blog when I get the chance.  :)

If you liked this one, quantum theory is likely to come up in at least one of my later posts this month (and not even counting the Mad Science article I&#039;ve got for later in the month.)  Not sure if you&#039;ll be interested or not, but you might want to stick around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, thanks much for the link, and I&#8217;ll cheerfully take a look at your blog when I get the chance.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>If you liked this one, quantum theory is likely to come up in at least one of my later posts this month (and not even counting the Mad Science article I&#8217;ve got for later in the month.)  Not sure if you&#8217;ll be interested or not, but you might want to stick around.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Quantum of Lovecraft by Rob Bryanton</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/quantum-of-lovecraft/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Bryanton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 09:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=255#comment-60</guid>
		<description>Nice blog entry! I&#039;ve had several people suggest that I need to show the relationship between the Imagining the Tenth Dimension approach to visualizing the dimensions and Lovecraft&#039;s work, I&#039;ll just send them to this post now. I&#039;ve put up a link at the Tenth Dimension blog in the Interesting Links section to your entry.

Coincidentally the blog entry I posted the same day your entry went up was called The Fifth Dimension is Spooky, you might get a kick out of it.
http://imaginingthetenthdimension.blogspot.com/2009/10/fifth-dimension-is-spooky.html

Thanks!

Rob Bryanton</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice blog entry! I&#8217;ve had several people suggest that I need to show the relationship between the Imagining the Tenth Dimension approach to visualizing the dimensions and Lovecraft&#8217;s work, I&#8217;ll just send them to this post now. I&#8217;ve put up a link at the Tenth Dimension blog in the Interesting Links section to your entry.</p>
<p>Coincidentally the blog entry I posted the same day your entry went up was called The Fifth Dimension is Spooky, you might get a kick out of it.<br />
<a href="http://imaginingthetenthdimension.blogspot.com/2009/10/fifth-dimension-is-spooky.html" rel="nofollow">http://imaginingthetenthdimension.blogspot.com/2009/10/fifth-dimension-is-spooky.html</a></p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Rob Bryanton</p>
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		<title>Comment on Quantum of Lovecraft by H. o'Dagg</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/quantum-of-lovecraft/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>H. o'Dagg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 00:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=255#comment-59</guid>
		<description>Well done, Grasshopper...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done, Grasshopper&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Won&#8217;t Somebody Think of the ADULTS for Once? by wolfemann</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/wont-somebody-think-of-the-adults-for-once/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>wolfemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=250#comment-58</guid>
		<description>Sadly, it&#039;s not uniquely Australian, but I get your point.  I&#039;m inclined, honestly, to agree with you.  However, they have a rallying cry other than &quot;won&#039;t somebody think of the children?&quot;  My concern is with the point who don&#039;t have any other point - who just throw up that argument because they have no other leg to stand on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, it&#8217;s not uniquely Australian, but I get your point.  I&#8217;m inclined, honestly, to agree with you.  However, they have a rallying cry other than &#8220;won&#8217;t somebody think of the children?&#8221;  My concern is with the point who don&#8217;t have any other point &#8211; who just throw up that argument because they have no other leg to stand on.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Razor Burns by Vorex</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/razor-burns/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Vorex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=247#comment-57</guid>
		<description>Bigfoot.

Because I&#039;m yet to see convincing evidence separating &#039;cryptozooolgy&#039; from &#039;Christian Science&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bigfoot.</p>
<p>Because I&#8217;m yet to see convincing evidence separating &#8216;cryptozooolgy&#8217; from &#8216;Christian Science&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Won&#8217;t Somebody Think of the ADULTS for Once? by Vorex</title>
		<link>http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/wont-somebody-think-of-the-adults-for-once/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Vorex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dttaboos.wordpress.com/?p=250#comment-56</guid>
		<description>I don’t want to undermine any of the examples given above, because I’m not at all familiar with them and I’m sure they’re entirely cogent, but I do want to put forward a dissenting case in that ‘protecting the children’ is, in cases, not only advisable in its own sense but also an argument for wider free expression ...

Here in AU there is no classification for electronic games above MA15+. That is to say, games are either appropriate for minors or banned from sale. While we’ve become one of the notoriously difficult jurisdictions (sure, we’re not Germany, but people do take particular notice of  how their games will play here) social standards and an average gamer age of 29 have lead to an extremely inconsistent application of the rating standards. The latest example of which is ‘Left 4 Dead 2’, which is by all reports thematically indistinguishable from it’s prequel ... a game which managed to be rated without any difficulty.  

The traditional ‘think of the children’ argument is that such prohibition is appropriate and we certainly have people (See: Sen. Michael Atkinson for those interested) towing that line. The fact on the ground is that anything our classification board isn’t willing to outright ban is available to minors, which includes some fairly strong and graphic stuff.  As an adult I find things enjoyable, acceptable or provocative that I wouldn’t be comfortable being in the unguided hands of a minor in my care. 

I’d damn well want to have several serious talks with them during the course of Persona 3, just to take one of my favourites as an example. 

The counter-argument, common amongst those with a deeper experience of game and gaming, is that an R18+ rating (equivalent to the TV and movie rating of the same name) would actually help both adults and minors. On the one hand games that are intended for adults can be appropriately and legally marked, on the other hand a cohort of games that are currently being rated for minors due to social reasons would be able to be legally sold but recognised as not ‘kids games’. There is, after all, a difference between ‘Barbie Adventures’ and ‘Manhunt 2’.

There’s a great deal more I could say on what is ultimately a uniquely AU issue, but ultimately it seems to me to come down to the difference between classification and censorship. Classification tells you about the media so you can decide whether or not to consume it. Censorship tells you whether or not you can consume it. The extension of which argument is that a strong and progressive regulatory regime can well protect and advance the rights of everyone. 

Of course one might as well hope for such as hope for the fruit of the Tree of Life, but it remains that in cases ‘protecting the children’ protects everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t want to undermine any of the examples given above, because I’m not at all familiar with them and I’m sure they’re entirely cogent, but I do want to put forward a dissenting case in that ‘protecting the children’ is, in cases, not only advisable in its own sense but also an argument for wider free expression &#8230;</p>
<p>Here in AU there is no classification for electronic games above MA15+. That is to say, games are either appropriate for minors or banned from sale. While we’ve become one of the notoriously difficult jurisdictions (sure, we’re not Germany, but people do take particular notice of  how their games will play here) social standards and an average gamer age of 29 have lead to an extremely inconsistent application of the rating standards. The latest example of which is ‘Left 4 Dead 2’, which is by all reports thematically indistinguishable from it’s prequel &#8230; a game which managed to be rated without any difficulty.  </p>
<p>The traditional ‘think of the children’ argument is that such prohibition is appropriate and we certainly have people (See: Sen. Michael Atkinson for those interested) towing that line. The fact on the ground is that anything our classification board isn’t willing to outright ban is available to minors, which includes some fairly strong and graphic stuff.  As an adult I find things enjoyable, acceptable or provocative that I wouldn’t be comfortable being in the unguided hands of a minor in my care. </p>
<p>I’d damn well want to have several serious talks with them during the course of Persona 3, just to take one of my favourites as an example. </p>
<p>The counter-argument, common amongst those with a deeper experience of game and gaming, is that an R18+ rating (equivalent to the TV and movie rating of the same name) would actually help both adults and minors. On the one hand games that are intended for adults can be appropriately and legally marked, on the other hand a cohort of games that are currently being rated for minors due to social reasons would be able to be legally sold but recognised as not ‘kids games’. There is, after all, a difference between ‘Barbie Adventures’ and ‘Manhunt 2’.</p>
<p>There’s a great deal more I could say on what is ultimately a uniquely AU issue, but ultimately it seems to me to come down to the difference between classification and censorship. Classification tells you about the media so you can decide whether or not to consume it. Censorship tells you whether or not you can consume it. The extension of which argument is that a strong and progressive regulatory regime can well protect and advance the rights of everyone. </p>
<p>Of course one might as well hope for such as hope for the fruit of the Tree of Life, but it remains that in cases ‘protecting the children’ protects everyone.</p>
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